Tuesday, September 12, 2006

Homosexuality & The Bible: The Truth, Part 5: IN PROCESS

THE UPDATE IS BEING UPDATED:


So until that happens....

Have a great rest of the week!

22 comments:

terriamachine said...

I might read this if you would get your facts straight. Carefully read the passage and then read just your first few comments. I think you might be so intent on bashing Paul (or at least poking fun at your idea of Paul, whom at this point in your life you seem to know only through the distorted lenses of the fundies) that you see him in places he never even is. And as much as I would like to agree with your whole "Knowing is half the battle" post, there are some things you just don't get. But that's okay because you're still in the process--as we are all--of learning and figuring out this whole mess. For the most part it was okay, but I'll tell you straight up that I know, and I can say that with confidence. Do I have doubts? Certainly. Am I 100% confident all the time? No. But faith bridges those gaps and it truly is something unexplainable in words, but it can be explained through experience--the words that time uses. The eyes and ears on our heads are not our only eyes and ears. As you might have already guessed, school is severely limiting my posting/commenting time, so please understand that I won't be reading/commenting as much as I would like.

Jason Hughes said...

Yes, I don't like Paul.

So yes, I poke a lot of fun at him. If you feel it detracts form the post at large, I apologize that you can't overlook it without saying something--but at leats I got a "For the most part it was okay."
:)

You know you experiences; you don't know the factual proof or evidence that most claim to have. I cannot argue with your faith, your experiences, your feelings, all of which are very valid, very real points each of us have and "know," in that, they are ours, and no one can know them--only we can know ourselves in that way.

I know you know that no one can actually "know." As in, have proof or undeniable verification of what is there. And while truth or experience or feeling may lead you to feel you know, through your faith and beliefs, it is still not a fact--it is simply a knowledge, or a "know," of what you truly believe to be, but not what you "know" through the physical world to be. Am I making sense--as in, does the idea I'm trying to convey making sense to you? (cause I already know I make sense to me!) :)

Faith des bridge the gap--I'm glad you have a faith that carries you in those areas. As I've said before, perhaps one day I'll get there--who knows? I've learned not only to never say never, but to never say "I know" as well.

Post when time permits--you have no obligation to post, of course, but any comments you do leave are always apprecated and thought about, and the ones you left tonight--in their brevity--will be thought on.

See you Saturday at Dad's?

terriamachine said...

Let me be more specific:

Your biblical passage is about Peter. Your comments and critiques are about Paul. Those are the facts I was telling you to get straight. I'll read anything you write, no matter what color it is in, but I won't "read it read it" until you at least get some basic facts correct--names of the people in question, for instance.

I used to hate Paul, too, until I learned about the historical, "real" Paul undistorted by catholics and fundies and various other hard liners throughout the ages. He's not nearly the demon we grew up learning about.

And I would never claim that my knowing is a fact. The aforementioned "churchy" people do (in which I guess you could throw our parents into that group), and that's okay--as long as they don't discriminate, which unfortunately they tend to do. My knowing grows from experiences and deepened when my wife left me. It's an ineffable knowledge--a very deep and personal one. I would never call it a fact. Yet, it is measurable, so it could be empirical, and thus we enter into the murk. Ann's out of the shower. Gotta go.

Anonymous said...

I see you have chosen not to post my comment about your ideas of Paul being a load of total crap - it figures - you cant stand for someone to tell you that you are wrong especially when it means that your whole lifestyle is wrong and will ultimately lead to your eternal damnation. You want fundies to open their minds - why dont you take your own advice and open your own to the possibility that you are wrong and you are headed to an eternity in a burning hell. It is true and you dont want to go there - heck, I dont even know you and I dont want you to go there. Let go of your foolish pride before it is too late! I am sure your mother is bankin' on the promise that we raise up our kids in the way they should go and when they are old they wont depart from it.......listen to what you know in your heart, what your mother has taught you.....forget what the world and even your boyfriend say and run back to the God who loves you.. ....Oh yeah, and you are so off base about the whole Paul thing that it would take years to rewrite the mess you have made of it.

Jason Hughes said...

Anon: I have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to "posting your ideas about Paul." I see no comment anywhere from you about that (unless you are refrring to an older post, in which case it would be a lot easier if you would just put your name on things or at least repost it to which I will respond (perhaps it wasn't worth reponding to? It's possible, trust me!); until then, read this: People tell me I'm wrong all the time: I listen, I take it in, I process it, and, like today's instance, you can see I have admitted to Tom that I am indeed wrong! I do admit when I am wrong, unlike some persons. But when I think I'm right, or at least that there can be no definitive wrong or right, I will stand my ground. You are welcome to believe I am going to hell; I could care less. Your beliefs affect my life not one iota. Just cause you think I'm going there doesn't make it so; stop trying to read people's hearts: a holt ghost you are not.

I carry much of what my mother & father taught me growing up every day of my life--their concept's and ideas and the way they presented those ideas of those lessons, no; but the lessons nonetheless of being a good and decent person trying to live my life the best I know how. Regardless, that does not mean one should just blindly hold onto childhood lessons without looking into them and understanding them.


Tom: Oh good golly! I see "P" and it all goes to hell! LOL!

I was doing the same thing on Kevin's site, getting "marc" and "mike" confused!

That does change a very few choice things... look for an "Updated: Update" this Friday evening perhaps... I won't have time to do anything until then...

Anonymous said...

I have no idea who Tom is or what you are sorry to him for......Anyway, being a good and decent person will not get you to heaven - you know that. Decent people who have not accepted Jesus as their savior will split hell wide open just as quickly as those who were atheists. And, you also know that my opinion of your soul situation DOES indeed bother you to some degree. If someone told me I was going to spend eternity in a burning fire --it would bother me - AND whether you admit it or not, it bothers you as well. If it didnt affect you in some way, you would not continue to blog about your unbelief in the bible. I pray that you will come to be under the conviction of the Holy Spirit and will not be able to do anything other than run back to the God who made you and tell Himi you were wrong. Go ahead and hate me if you want - I speak THE Truth - The only truth!

Jason Hughes said...

Anon, do you read anything? Other comments?

Tom = terriamachine, for future refernce in case you missed the obvious...

And no, it doesn't bother me. Just because something bothers one person doesn't mean it bothers another; we are not a "collective," we are all each individual persons with our own thoughts and such...

You said: If it didnt affect you in some way, you would not continue to blog about your unbelief in the bible.
LOL! With such a simplictic mindset, no wonder you don't think beyond your fire-insurance policy!

If I blogged about why kittens aren't blue, would that mean it bothers me that they don't come in that color?

You said: I pray that you will come to be under the conviction of the Holy Spirit and will not be able to do anything other than run back to the God who made you and tell Himi you were wrong.
I pointed out a study done a while back that pretty much proves the intercessory prayer has absolutely no effect whatsoever, even though prayer for self can actually help persons heal faster... So let me think, how does that correlate? Pray till you're blue, in won't change anything...

You said: Go ahead and hate me if you want - I speak THE Truth - The only truth!
Why would I hate you for having a different opinion? I hate the mind-set you perpetuate, but that certainly doesn't mean I hate you--

And what is that saying? "Pride goeth before a fall"?

That's fine if you believe you have the truth. I will just say you don't, and we'll be back at square one.

Anonymous said...

Look, Jason. I don't have to read anything. I don't have to even hear your entire side of the story. The Father in Heaven will guide me and this I know for sure. The whole reason why the good and pure are against your sinful ways are because the lord directs them to be. If you try to change thier minds, ou are trying to change GOD and you are simply no match for his power and glory. Please, I beg you, repent your evil ways and find the holy path before it is too late. The lord is our shepherd. Please follow his will for your own sake.

Jason Hughes said...

Now I'm trying to change god?

Now that is an excellent idea if Douglas Adam's were still around to write another book... LOL, change god, you make me laugh, Anon!

No one here is trying to change god: I am simply pointing out things in one of his or hers supposed books, nothing more, nothing less. Maybe we'll all learn something (unless you happen to be you and refuse to even read things--BTW, how did you ever get through biology in school with that attitude?)

Sorry for assuming you knew how to actually carry on a conversation--which, for future reference, means you say something, I say something back, someone else puts in their two cents, and we work from there. If you can't be bothered to even read what someone says, how do you even expect to be able to know what your god says?

Let me guess, your pastor? God says it, I believe it, and that settles it" mentality? Sorry not everyone shares your black-and-white view of the world...

You may commence begging again. Consider this a quarter in your cup...

darkmind: LOL! Middle eastern lamb is very good! In fact, I haven't had it in years, but it may be time to go out on the town again for a seven-course BYOB meal in Allentown!

Dave said...

I fear your dependency upon science and your pride will be your ulitmate downfall. And by the way, I did not write the previous anon comment - it was apparently written by someone else who would hate to see you go to hell when God has made salvation so simple.

Jason Hughes said...

I kinda figured it wasn't you, Dave, as we have worked past that whole name thing on your end...

I don't understand why all you fundamentalists are ____ (afraid?) to put your names on your comments... what is it? what keeps you guys from claiming your words? I know it doesn't make a huge difference in that, I'm probably not going to know you from Adam (ahh, the good old days of e-mail stalker...), but it does make a difference when you say, "Hi, I am Joe Blow, and I say ____" as opposed to , "This is my two cents, but I'm an unknown..."

And you still never actually explained your feelings about swear words... what's the beef?

dave said...

Point taken on the name thing - I dont know what it matters considering you will never know me personally and I will never know you personally, but I will not post as anon anymore since it irks you. Obviously it isnt that i am afraid to put my name on any comment I make, I just simply never take the time to type my name in the box - I will from now on though. So, here goes,
Hi, My name is David (Dave for short), and this is my two cents.........I dislike cursing because I find it offensive, distasteful, and for the most part an act of ignorance. When I hear cursing I am reminded of southern hillbilly rednecks who cannot think of anything worthwhile to say other than phrases such as F You and Kiss my a--. Cursing is generally reserved for those uneducated people whose vocabulary is limited in the area of adjectives. I do not believe you to be that sort of person, but one would not know by just reading your blog entries.
Just like you get fed up with "fundies", I get fed up with atheists. I am not a fundamental nut like many, but I am a believer 100%. There is no question in my mind about the existence of God or His power. I get so sick of atheists who claim they have scientific evidence against the case of creationism, or who say there is no God because I have never seem HIM (not her). I get sick of the constant villifying of Christians in the name of science. You have apparently spent some time in the church (I am not sure what denomination, but I feel like your experience was less than great since you are not a believer)and I think you will have to agree that all Christians are not bad people, they are not all crazy. My opinions stated on your blog are a reflection of these feelings, nothing more. I have no bad feelings toward you, but similar to what you feel toward me, I dislike the attitude you perpetuate.

Jason Hughes said...

Well, Dave, I hgave to respect that (the part where you hate what I perpetuate as well). There's nothing wrong with standing your ground for what you believe.

I do have to disagree with your take on cursing, though. It's not a matter of not having a vocabulary so to speak, it's a matter of sometimes you just have a very strong point to get across and those words are strong enough to get people's attention. And sometimes they're just appropriate.

Yes, it turns some people off, but it still gets their attention to the point where they say, "Well, yes, he does have a point, even if I don't like the way he put it," and it gets them thinking (or not).

And sometimes, when you stub your toe in the middle of the night cause you have to pee and its dark, a good old "FUCK!!!!!" makes it feel just a teensy bit better...

:)

Now, as to your other point about proof against creationism with science--I guess it depends on your take on the creation story, doesn't it? I'm actually preparing another post on this subject (science Vs. literal creation story of the bible), so perhaps once it's posted you can share your thoughts on my take about your take...

Toodles for now.

mom said...

hello jason, i have been doing wire connectors and needed a much needed break and thought i read your blog. well, i think we all should grab a half gallon of our favorite ice cream turn up the cry in your beer songs and discuss this all in person!! :) i know this comment did not have anything to do with the whole thing but just wanted to say that. :) i am going to ask dear old tom=terriamachine why he thinks his parents discriminate? but since i am #15 on the comment list most probably know one will care anyway. :) thats ok i'll just go back to my wire connectors and listen to my good old country music. the kind of country music you don't have to ask 'is that country?' :) love and prayers

Darkmind said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
dave said...

Hey, Darkmind, just because someone does not believe doesnt mean there is more room in heaven for me. As a Christian, I dont want anyone not to go to heaven. It is God's will that no one should spend eternity in hell. He gave us free will and that means we choose to believe or not. He gives us a simple choice - eternity in heaven with the God who made us or eternity in hell in a never ending fire. Now, I realize that you see everything on scientific terms, but what you need to understand about Christianity is that to us, science isnt everything. Christ tells us to come to Him as a child, not just any child, but an infant. A helpless infant who is dependent on its parent for everything. He wants us to be completely dependent upon His provision, which means that science is not always a factor. This is completely foreign to those of you who are hell bent on making everything a matter of concrete fact and denying faith in anything or Anyone. The universe is so vast and the enormity of it is imcomprehensible to the small human mind. Is it not possible that there is a God, who engineered it all and is the mastermind of creation? When you think of the infinite nature of our world, can you not understand that it didnt just happen by coincidence? It all makes perfect sense to me and I trust God in that childlike manner and He will handle the rest. Where do you think you will go when your life is over? Just curious.

Darkmind said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
dave said...

Sorry, Jason, for using your blog to talk to someone else, but I want to reply to Darkmind.
I like your comment "I have said before that religions have all the answers but offer no proof, and science can show proof, but does not have all the answers". It is true that religion does not hold all the answers - as a matter of fact "religion" holds very few answers to anything. The answers are found in faith in a God that I have never seen, but have accepted in my heart. To you, I kow that sounds like a load of bull, but because I have experienced the Holy Spirit in my life and have been changed completely - it makes perfect sense to me and as you believe there is no God - I believe that there is no way He doesnt exist. It all comes down to the experience - you have never experienced God,so you dont believe - I can so relate to that. I, on the other hand, have experienced God and will never be the same. Humans are funny creatures - we usually want proof of everything, but that is where faith comes to light. Just as in a love relationship with another human being - we can say we love someone, buy them candy, flowers,etc,. but how do they really know our true heart? They cannot - we just have to have faith that they will know we are telling the truth. Same with God. We have His word, a love letter to us, do I know the heart of God? No, I just have to believe what He says in His word is true. I soooooo realize that what I am saying is foreign language to you. If I were an unbeliever and someone told me these things, I would think they were a religious nut. I hope you dont think that of me - I am a nut, but not a religious one -( a little humor - very little). I dont consider myself religious at all. I am a believer....that is it...end of story. Jesus was not a religious man - HE despised religion and all it stood for in His day. My focus is my relationship with God and His Son - I am telling you that when you meet God, really meet Him, you will never be the same. All your doubts will fly away with the wind because He is so REAL. If you ask, He will reveal Himself to you and will open your eyes to all that He is. I know you may not believe it now, but I pray that you will. I am assuming that you are familiar with the term rapture (when Jesus comes to take His bride, the church, to be with Him). If the rapture occurred today, and there were millions of people who disappeared, would you believe then? I am just curious, not being smart aleck at all - some people say they will never believe - are you one of those people? Even after the rapture, there will be a chance for you to be saved from eternal hell - I believe we are on the threshold of that occuring - I know that Paul thought it would happen in his day as well, but I cannot help but see the events that are unfolding in the world and not think it is near the end. I am not foolish enough to believe that I am going to change your mind in this comment section (I would if I could), but please remember that if the rapture occurs tomorrow or many years down the road, please do what is necessary to research what you need to do to go to heaven. It sounds like hooey right now, but what if it is real, what if I am right. Science and pride are not worth an eternity in a burning hell - I just ask you to think about it - I respect your opinions, but maybe there is another explanation why we are here on this earth. Thanks for reading my rambling rant!

Jason Hughes said...

Dave Take all the room you need...

In regards to your question, though: If the rapture occurred today, and there were millions of people who disappeared, would you believe then?

That is what I would call proof. But that's assuming you all aren't raptured by bubonic plague or something... and even then, I'd find it highly suspicious that all the Christains were dying by Bubonic plague... could it be a fanatic infecting only believers? coincidence, as in, all the wine they used to communion was infected somehow?

I'd still need to look at the facts, but yes, that would be believe worthy at face-value.

Darkmind: I also like the "I have said before that religions have all the answers but offer no proof, and science can show proof, but does not have all the answers."

It seems to sum things up very nicely... :)

Darkmind said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
dave said...

Thanks for the space, Jason - congrats on the new addition to your family! Too bad about the seafood -I personally dont eat anything that swims - seems safer that way since everyone I know has gotten sick on seafood at some time or another.
Darkmind, I only have on explanation for my concern for the souls of people I do not even know. I have a great love for people and a great respect for people in general - I simply do not want to see anyone go to hell. That's it....I have been forgiven by God for so much and I want others to accept his forgiveness as well. I can only hope you change your mind and give God a chance == what do you have to lose by just exploring the possibilities and I mean other than scientific possibilities? Speak to a person of faith and listen to their views - who knows maybe something will register with you and your mind will be opened to the possibility of a God who loves you. I hope you will. Have an awesome night!

Jason Hughes said...

Well, Dave, I hgave to respect that (the part where you hate what I perpetuate as well). There's nothing wrong with standing your ground for what you believe.

I do have to disagree with your take on cursing, though. It's not a matter of not having a vocabulary so to speak, it's a matter of sometimes you just have a very strong point to get across and those words are strong enough to get people's attention. And sometimes they're just appropriate.

Yes, it turns some people off, but it still gets their attention to the point where they say, "Well, yes, he does have a point, even if I don't like the way he put it," and it gets them thinking (or not).

And sometimes, when you stub your toe in the middle of the night cause you have to pee and its dark, a good old "FUCK!!!!!" makes it feel just a teensy bit better...

:)

Now, as to your other point about proof against creationism with science--I guess it depends on your take on the creation story, doesn't it? I'm actually preparing another post on this subject (science Vs. literal creation story of the bible), so perhaps once it's posted you can share your thoughts on my take about your take...

Toodles for now.